is that really the word they want?
Oct. 30th, 2010 10:06 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
I don't know much about this 'Rally to restore Sanity' bit. Some comedian, many people I read think it's yayful. Message boards saying 'Be Sane'.
I'm not much impressed with political speech around the word Sanity. Usually it divides the world up into 'Sane', which is what you want to listen to, and 'Insane', which you don't want to listen to.
Is it really a good idea to say 'don't listen to mentally ill people'?
But oh, wait, they're not talking about actual mentally ill people anyway, they're doing some metaphor thing where some speech acts are sane and some are insane. Great. That's okay then.
Except really, no. Sanity is not a metaphor or a way of telling off speech you don't want to hear. It's mental health or mental illness, and it's not a simple way of figuring out who to listen to. There are mentally ill people who are any kind of crazy you care to name but not actually ignorant on some topics. Have reasonable well thought out things to say about some things. Like, say, their rights, and how they'd quite like to not be the victims of hate crimes, thanks so very.
But insane is still the big scary, or the big dismissal, the word you throw at stuff to paint it worthless.
I don't see how that helps.
And the rally title don't say what it's actually about. So that isn't helpful either.
Have you noticed the meaning drift in 'mental' too? This one bugs the hell out of me. Mental means of the mind, it's a word present in mentally illness or mental health, except people say health to mean when health goes wrong and the opposites start to blur together. And now I see and hear it over and over, "That's mental!" And they say it to mean crazy, insane, nuts. And sometimes they mean it to mean crazy exciting and sometimes they mean it to mean ridiculous, but they haven't actually said either. The insulting tone just spreads out and makes a nonsense of actual words.
There's words lying around this week I kept on noticing, in sig lines or whatever, somebody quoting something. One quote says 'poofter' and one quote says 'spaz', and people are using them with their avatars and their sigs. And I want to say, is that what you really want to be saying?
Willow saying she's a spaz to call herself a bad word was plausible yet annoying in context. Quoted over and over down the page, do we really need that? The top urban dictionary definition for 'Spaz' is "From spastic, the disability. Means a person that acts insane or mentally retarded." The other definitions elaborate on that theme. The thing where spastic, insane, and retarded are whole different things isn't in the minds of people using the word. The thing where spastic was mostly referring to cerebral palsy isn't the first association. It has been used for so long as a playground put down it's just being read as another bad word. So a character might use the word, but they'd be being rude to people with disability, and thoughtless, and do people using the quote want to be rude and thoughtless some more? Really?
Or 'poofter', which Spike calls Angel when he wants to imply he's being less than macho, tangling sexual orientation and gender presentation in one put down. It's one of the words for gay, and not a polite one. Spike using it as an insult, perfectly plausible, he's evil, he's an arsehole, he'd say it. Quoting it in your sig over and over? Random homophobic insults are really the way you want to present yourself?
But I don't go saying this stuff directly to people. I don't know where the line is between 'needs saying' and 'background irritation'. It's just one word, in one quote, which made sense in context, in an annoying kind of way.
But you add it all together and you get language where the insults are about making bad words out of neuroatypical, disabled or queer.
I could really live without that, you know?
I tried once reworking insults for a future SF setting, reworking the swear words so they made sense in context. If you take out the religion swears as totally irrelevant, and the sex swears because sex isn't a bad thing, and the sexual orientation swears because everyone can do who they want, and the race swears because race is just neutral, and the disability swears because there isn't any disability any more (or there is and nobody puts moral weight on it), you very nearly run out of swears. You're left with words for body parts or body fluids or excrement. And a PG rating for language. And a language only suitable for utopia.
Which, you know, I could live with.
I'm not much impressed with political speech around the word Sanity. Usually it divides the world up into 'Sane', which is what you want to listen to, and 'Insane', which you don't want to listen to.
Is it really a good idea to say 'don't listen to mentally ill people'?
But oh, wait, they're not talking about actual mentally ill people anyway, they're doing some metaphor thing where some speech acts are sane and some are insane. Great. That's okay then.
Except really, no. Sanity is not a metaphor or a way of telling off speech you don't want to hear. It's mental health or mental illness, and it's not a simple way of figuring out who to listen to. There are mentally ill people who are any kind of crazy you care to name but not actually ignorant on some topics. Have reasonable well thought out things to say about some things. Like, say, their rights, and how they'd quite like to not be the victims of hate crimes, thanks so very.
But insane is still the big scary, or the big dismissal, the word you throw at stuff to paint it worthless.
I don't see how that helps.
And the rally title don't say what it's actually about. So that isn't helpful either.
Have you noticed the meaning drift in 'mental' too? This one bugs the hell out of me. Mental means of the mind, it's a word present in mentally illness or mental health, except people say health to mean when health goes wrong and the opposites start to blur together. And now I see and hear it over and over, "That's mental!" And they say it to mean crazy, insane, nuts. And sometimes they mean it to mean crazy exciting and sometimes they mean it to mean ridiculous, but they haven't actually said either. The insulting tone just spreads out and makes a nonsense of actual words.
There's words lying around this week I kept on noticing, in sig lines or whatever, somebody quoting something. One quote says 'poofter' and one quote says 'spaz', and people are using them with their avatars and their sigs. And I want to say, is that what you really want to be saying?
Willow saying she's a spaz to call herself a bad word was plausible yet annoying in context. Quoted over and over down the page, do we really need that? The top urban dictionary definition for 'Spaz' is "From spastic, the disability. Means a person that acts insane or mentally retarded." The other definitions elaborate on that theme. The thing where spastic, insane, and retarded are whole different things isn't in the minds of people using the word. The thing where spastic was mostly referring to cerebral palsy isn't the first association. It has been used for so long as a playground put down it's just being read as another bad word. So a character might use the word, but they'd be being rude to people with disability, and thoughtless, and do people using the quote want to be rude and thoughtless some more? Really?
Or 'poofter', which Spike calls Angel when he wants to imply he's being less than macho, tangling sexual orientation and gender presentation in one put down. It's one of the words for gay, and not a polite one. Spike using it as an insult, perfectly plausible, he's evil, he's an arsehole, he'd say it. Quoting it in your sig over and over? Random homophobic insults are really the way you want to present yourself?
But I don't go saying this stuff directly to people. I don't know where the line is between 'needs saying' and 'background irritation'. It's just one word, in one quote, which made sense in context, in an annoying kind of way.
But you add it all together and you get language where the insults are about making bad words out of neuroatypical, disabled or queer.
I could really live without that, you know?
I tried once reworking insults for a future SF setting, reworking the swear words so they made sense in context. If you take out the religion swears as totally irrelevant, and the sex swears because sex isn't a bad thing, and the sexual orientation swears because everyone can do who they want, and the race swears because race is just neutral, and the disability swears because there isn't any disability any more (or there is and nobody puts moral weight on it), you very nearly run out of swears. You're left with words for body parts or body fluids or excrement. And a PG rating for language. And a language only suitable for utopia.
Which, you know, I could live with.
no subject
Date: 2010-10-31 02:16 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-10-31 02:41 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-10-31 01:42 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-10-31 01:43 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-10-31 02:25 pm (UTC)~ c.
no subject
Date: 2010-10-31 04:44 pm (UTC)I remember a sci-fi book series ( the Sime/Gen books by Jacqueline Lichtenberg ) where the swear words were based on life-energy transfer. (Granted, the author may have done the whole selyn thing to create an opportunity for a metaphoric [analogous?] exploration of sexual relations.) She even touched on the evolution of given swear words from unspeakable to generally acceptable.
" . . . insane is still the big scary, or the big dismissal, the word you throw at stuff . . . "
Although I agree with this whole thing (I'm not neuro-normative, and I think conditioning people to think dis'ng me is okay is bad), I'm not sure how else we can quickly and easily say certain things. When I think of the Bush administration's response to 9/11 (essentially abandoning an almost-secured victory to attack a country that had barely any ties to the group that attacked us), "insane" is the best word I can come up with. Because sane people don't do that. (Granting that most insane people wouldn't do that either, I still think it was a literally not-sane thing to do.) What other word can we use? "Evil" has a bunch of baggage guaranteed to derail, "misguided" is way too mild . . . I've got nothing.
There something in our makeup that requires short'n'simple labels for what we're talking about. Every time we succeed in getting across "this word is unacceptable here" another word or phrase pops up to replace it, which later turns out to be unacceptable for other reasons. I'm wondering if there's any way to get ahead of this, or if by eventually succeeding in removing variations on "insane" from acceptable usage we're doomed to start dis'ng some other group.
~
no subject
Date: 2010-11-01 03:55 pm (UTC)I wouldn't start on "what we have" and work from there, I would start on "what's their world like" and explore from that point.
Damnit, and I just removed my "rock paper scifi" icon.
no subject
Date: 2010-10-31 11:07 am (UTC)A group called the Tea Party are on the up, and if you google some of their views on things like not wanting benefits or healthcare for anyone, that guns are great, that children shouldn't be educated about things like sex and evolution, that global warming is a myth and oil is amazing, that all gay people are evil and should not have rights.....
Well could you tell me what word is best to describe them if not "Insane"?
"Misguided" doesn't quite cut it.
xx
no subject
Date: 2010-10-31 01:41 pm (UTC)Misguided, ignorant, and wrong are the more accurate words. They say more about what the actual problem is.
no subject
Date: 2010-10-31 02:20 pm (UTC)People aren't insane they have a diagnosed disease for which there can then be treatment. Insanity just seems so Victorian and outdated that I can't take it seriously.
It's a bit like saying someone has the consumption when they really have a chest infection.
Can a word that is so irrelevant now still be offensive? I mean obviously so if you don't like it but in general terms?
Also, did you watch that thing on BBC3 the other night about weird habits that people have? It basically concluded that 100% of people have some strange thing that makes them not normal.
xx