beccaelizabeth's dreamwidth journal

Dreamed of Rupert Giles today, turning up in a caravan and needing somewhere to stay.
He looked about the same age as he did in the first episode.
I looked him up. That could plausibly be the age I'll be this year. I'm catching up.


Weird, watching and feeling perspective shift as generations change.


Now I'm imagining someone saying I'm the Chosen Mentor, me and my library, so I have to whoosh off to another continent and do all That.

... and then get criticised for my qualities as a father, despite being a very late addition to a 16 year old's life.

... still say he's a Teacher, not father.

Me and my cosy worn in life and my routines and vague feeling I should join a club with more people in it
but mostly staying home and reading (slightly older and more erudite) books...

You know, I thought I understood Giles pretty well back then, but from here?
That's a Lot.


And teenagers are ever so very much younger.


Yikes.



... Giles thoughts kind of day...

I'm lacking big thinking about Buffy of late. There seems to be a bunch about masculinity and violence, direct parallels between Spike and Riley, and Riley and Adam of course, plus some stuff about how useless Giles and Xander feel now they're not defined by their jobs. Giles and Xander keep trying to help with the violence cause they've got none jobs and want to be useful, Xander beats up Spike and it's a sign he cares, Giles gets all sad because nobody is scared of him any more. Spike of course refers to his lack of capacity to do violence in direct comparison to neutering. Masculinity and violence. Big thing.

... big thing covered by every other show ever. Bored? Kinda. I mean, not bored of the episodes, but not coming out with meta.

All of them feeling less masculine because Buffy is more successful at violence than they ever could be, and Spike and Riley eroticising that, that's a thing BtVS does a little different. Mostly if the girl is kick arse it's to teach a guy to be better than her by the end of the movie. Here she just stays better, consistently. Yaays.

The same sex desire metaphor in the magics, the way Willow and Tara have to be, er, subtle, and the way Giles and Ethan are at the pub... a couple of old mystics, sorcerers, the night is still our time... yeah, still liking that, except for the not trivial thing where not being allowed to show stuff sucks. But the metaphors are pretty and the guys at the pub are, well, I'm coming up with plausible and I don't know if that's what I mean? Giles responding when he thinks Ethan is calling him attractive, intense eye contact, history together... you can see it happening, and you can see it in those scenes.

Ethan and the Fyarl thing: you can read it as Ethan didn't do it. Way back at the start of Buffy, episode three, it was established that one way to undo every spell in progress was to kill the caster. But when Giles the demon breaks in to grab Ethan, Ethan says "I can't undo you if you kill me!" Okay, he could be lying about everything, but if true, it means it wasn't his spell.

If it was then it's a classic be careful what you wish for. Giles wanted to be scary.
But that could also mean he got very, very drunk and did something unwise to himself. Unlikely, sure, but if you want to tell that tale...

For G/E shippers there's the teensy problem of him apparently trying to get Giles killed when he tells Buffy "It killed Ripper and now it's trying to get me!"
He could simply be mistaken about how far gone Giles is, if he can't get back from there. He could be making a complex statement about tweedy Giles and his ongoing fight with his own Ripper side. Or it could just be mischief to cover his own escape. Granted Buffy tries to kill Giles because of it, but she epic fails. And Ethan predicted that, reckoned "You're only going to make him angry." If he don't believe Giles can be hurt then it's mischief, not murder.

But then there's "I've really got to learn to just do the damage and get out of town. It's the 'stay and gloat' that gets me every time."
He's saying he did damage, and should have run before Ripper caught up.

Probably meant to be Ethan then.

But there's loopholes available if you want them. Like, what was he even doing in the place a demon was meant to rise and didn't anyway?



... Ethan Rayne can be so much more interesting if you read a little depth into a character that's pretty much just an excuse for mayhem to happen. But mayhem of the insides to outsides sort, which is always very character based fun.



Giles chasing Professor Walsh because she called him an absent male role model, always funny, but again connecting masculinity and violence. Giles feels powerless and judged, because a woman is implying a woman made herself without him. So he gets big and scary at her. Because clearly it's fun to use threats to counter words. And clearly it's more funny because it's Giles, who is usually words guy. But it's a moment that comes from him, not Ethan, even if Ethan did give him the outsides to do it.


Rupert Giles: earning his nickname since the early 70s.


I'm dissatisfied with how they used Walsh. She was evil psychology lady, and some of that was clever. Introduced doing stuff like controlling the discourse by naming herself as both good and evil versions, smart on several levels, and funny from writers cause they know what we don't. Creepy stuff that reminds me of abusers when she controls Riley just by mocking or relabelling his feelings, so he's just being college boy when he's trying to have opinions. Makes him feel small and then tells him to make her proud, so all his self worth is supposed to come from her reactions. Reworking his base code, like Adam said. Must have taken a lot of creepy manipulative work. And then making soldiers that don't ask questions... that's such a wrong view of soldiers. So all of that is perfectly good evil overlord stuff. But it's wrapped up with Riley and Adam calling her Mother on different occasions, and the weird thing with watching Riley have sex and getting rid of his girlfriend. Creepy gendered stuff. With no matching good version. I mean, if they're exploring mothers, Buffy has one of those, but no, they're just contrasting with Giles for some reason, current teacher vs ex teacher, at a point Giles is distanced from Buffy. Also there's previous evil teacher ladies but no hint of comparison. Comparing what Walsh does to what Watchers did would be perfectly reasonable, but you have to reach to other seasons to do it. Which, okay, it's season 4 and you'd expect some stuff to just be background, but I'm dissatisfied with how it turned out. There should be more women, more mothers, more teachers.

... I'm watching Buffy and thinking there need to be more women, even though Willow and Tara and Anya and Buffy are all right there.

I'm quite a lot creeped out by how Xander treats Anya. I mean I know she's an ex-demon but the comparisons with her behaviour have her turning up on list of autistic characters, so this time every time Xander corrects her on social skills is kind of grating. Like she's not meant to have her own thoughts and feelings but has to fit the mask on to be acceptable to him. It's not that she's actually learning compassion and empathy and that good stuff, she's just being told 'we talked about this' and changing how she behaves. I feel like Xander doesn't actually like Anya, he just likes how she makes him feel, and part of that is him feeling like he has the knowings and can teach from a position of moral superiority.



I'm super grumpy today and don't know if it's the TV that's always grump making or me that's always in a grump. So it goes.



The first three seasons, the basic metaphor was 'high school is hell'. Okay. They shift to college, but after the room mate episode I'm unconvinced they upgraded to 'college is hell'. More of a general 'young adulthood is hell'. Everyone trying to tell you who to be and shape you into who they want, but at the same time leaving you to sink or swim and not supporting you like you were supported a minute ago. Not knowing how to relate to adults, who are now meant to be other adults like you, but get cranky if you treat them that way and make you feel weird. Being expected to make a quantum leap in maturity and then frowned on for thinking you're mature. The whole thing with the drugged Initiative agents seems less metaphorical and more just a thing in itself, but I guess the pressure to perform physically and mentally is a college thing. Even Willow's magical lashing out is the thing where having a little power does not always go so good. So the metaphors are still there.



I'll watch more episodes later.

Tell me one thing about Giles&Ethan and I'll tell you one thing back

Ripper
Fools Journey
2
Higher

Part: 7/7

Rating: I'm aiming for a tone much like Buffy or Angel, which are 15 to 18 rated in the UK.
Pairing(s): Giles and Ethan are in the same story, therefore it is vaguely G/E
Spoilers: Post Chosen, post Not Fade Away. Refers to earlier series canon.
Third in my Fool's Journey series, the rest in memories here or my fic tag. This one should basically make sense as a stand alone.

Summary: Rupert Giles and Ethan Rayne. Best mates, worst enemies, sometimes both at once. They've got a lot of history. So even when the Initative took Ethan away, Giles was sure he'd see him again, sooner or later...
Now the late Ethan Rayne is turning out to be twice the trouble, and Giles must be the one to deal with it.


38000 words total, 1400 words this part, complete

Disclaimer: Joss told us to "Write fan fic."
So they're still his toys, but he seems to not mind us playing with them.
No money, no harm.

Thanks to pinkdormouse for beta.

Author's notes and warnings: ( Read more... )

Part 1/7 here
Part 2/7 here
Part 3/7 here
Part 4/7 here
Part 5/7 here
Part 6/7 here

*** *** ***
( Story Continues )
*** END ***
*** (BEGINNING) ***

All my fic here


Rate fic, poll

Ripper
Fools Journey
2
Higher

Part: 5/7

Rating: I'm aiming for a tone much like Buffy or Angel, which are 15 to 18 rated in the UK.
Pairing(s): Giles and Ethan are in the same story, therefore it is vaguely G/E
Spoilers: Post Chosen, post Not Fade Away. Refers to earlier series canon.
Third in my Fool's Journey series, the rest in memories here or my fic tag. This one should basically make sense as a stand alone.

Summary: Rupert Giles and Ethan Rayne. Best mates, worst enemies, sometimes both at once. They've got a lot of history. So even when the Initative took Ethan away, Giles was sure he'd see him again, sooner or later... Now the late Ethan Rayne is turning out to be twice the trouble, and Giles must be the one to deal with it.


38000 words total, 7850 words this part

Disclaimer: Joss told us to "Write fan fic."
So they're still his toys, but he seems to not mind us playing with them.
No money, no harm.

Thanks to pinkdormouse for beta.

Author's notes and warnings: ( Read more... )

Part 1/7 here
Part 2/7 here
Part 3/7 here
Part 4/7 here

*** *** ***
( Story Continues )
*** *** ***

Part 6/7 here

Ripper
Fools Journey
2
Higher

Part: 3/7

Rating: I'm aiming for a tone much like Buffy or Angel, which are 15 to 18 rated in the UK.
Pairing(s): Giles and Ethan are in the same story, therefore it is vaguely G/E
Spoilers: Post Chosen, post Not Fade Away. Refers to earlier series canon.
Third in my Fool's Journey series, the rest in memories here or my fic tag. This one should basically make sense as a stand alone.

Summary: Rupert Giles and Ethan Rayne. Best mates, worst enemies, sometimes both at once. They've got a lot of history. So even when the Initative took Ethan away, Giles was sure he'd see him again, sooner or later...
Now the late Ethan Rayne is turning out to be twice the trouble, and Giles must be the one to deal with it.



38000 words total, 5180 words this part

Disclaimer: Joss told us to "Write fan fic."
So they're still his toys, but he seems to not mind us playing with them.
No money, no harm.

Thanks to pinkdormouse for beta.

Author's notes and warnings: ( Read more... )

Part 1/7 here
Part 2/7 here


*** *** ***
( Story Continues )
*** *** ***

Part 4/7 here

Ripper
Fools Journey
2
Higher

Part: 1/7

Rating: I'm aiming for a tone much like Buffy or Angel, which are 15 to 18 rated in the UK.
Pairing(s): Giles and Ethan are in the same story, therefore it is vaguely G/E
Spoilers: Post Chosen, post Not Fade Away. Refers to earlier series canon.
Third in my Fool's Journey series, the rest in memories here or my fic tag. This one should basically make sense as a stand alone.

Summary: Rupert Giles and Ethan Rayne. Best mates, worst enemies, sometimes both at once. They've got a lot of history. So even when the Initative took Ethan away, Giles was sure he'd see him again, sooner or later...

38000 words total, 2200 words this part

Disclaimer: Joss told us to "Write fan fic."
So they're still his toys, but he seems to not mind us playing with them.
No money, no harm.

Thanks to pinkdormouse for beta.
Also, thanks to my f-list for all the 'shocky' discussion.

Author's notes and warnings: ( Read more... )


*** *** ***
( Story Begins )
*** *** ***

Part 2/7 here
Part 3/7 here



PS if you like, you can pretend it says shaken instead of shocky. Like choose your own adventure! ;-)

You can never lose yourself, on account of actually being yourself, all the time. Maybe not a self you like, but still self. Same with that 'true self' bit - it's all true. All in there somewhere. Just sometimes you show the face you want to claim later, and other times you want to turn your back on it.

Can't take bits of you and call them not-you. I mean if it was fingers that would be obvious. Lindsey aside, there is no evil hand, there's just hand. Same with all this 'Ripper was his bad self' bit - Ripper was his self, and there was bits of it get called bad. Doesn't mean you can cut it off and chuck it out, any more than you could with fingers and be healthy.

Understand, balance, use.
Not call not-self.
Got to own your demons before you can control them.

Have decided Giles, when drinking the good stuff, drinks 30 year old Laphroaig.
Because it is from the isle of Islay
and apparently comes in its own little coffin


Now I find that the story doesn't really need all that detail to go in right then, and I sulk.

I was reading a thing about Riley, and it said
He returned to the military as he would likely return to his faith, but now taking a different position within them -- one where he became truly active in his own life.

Which struck me as wrong, but not, on reflection, wrong in canon. I'm not sure we get enough canon to figure either way.

Riley was in the military, went all secret black ops, got betrayed by them, stopped being military for a while. Went all... undone, all his previous things he called himself not working any more. Not a soldier, not a superhero, not Buffy's beloved, not a whole lot of things, from his point of view. Flirted with dying, because really, getting fed on by a vampire is way too close to getting yourself killed. And then the military threw him a lifeline. Drowning and normless, he got offered a nice ready made identity and set of rules, all clear and decided, and from a part of his life where he hadn't had to do any of that messy thinking.

Maybe he took all his contradictions back in with him.

But maybe he just tried to rewind and start over, be nice uncomplicated by the book boy again.


This is how my Ethan see Giles returning to the Watchers, as running away and letting someone else do his thinking for him. So I look at Riley, and figure, there's a lot of things in common with Giles. Differences too, but things in common. Duty. Rule books. Buffy not actually needing them. Reacting badly to Buffy not actually needing them.

... this is the kind of train of thought that usually leads to /, but I don't want to go there.



Both guys, they had a bad patch. Specific comparison, Giles mentioning his Ripper years in connection with the vamp suck jobs.

Both guys went back to a rigid structured environment they had previously been part of.

But what did that mean? Did they bring their new understandings to the old job? Or did they throw them out and pick up from where it hadn't gone wrong yet? The former would be a positive response, but the latter would be ignoring the whole thing where before it went wrong was in fact part of the path to going wrong.

Its a bit like, Giles can be read as a bit of a rebel as a Watcher. Or, he can be read as basically a by the book Watcher who got fired.

He changed his mind and went against the Council once, at a point where it was pretty much too late, when he'd already done his part of the bad things. The way he trained Buffy was nothing like how Kendra was trained, but Faith had a Watcher too and she wasn't much like Kendra either. The 70s Slayer Spike killed must have been un-Kendra-like too, or there wouldn't be offspring. And when Giles tried to be the boss, Buffy was all "and you would be stopping me how?" so I think how he ended up being was an ongoing negotiation between his preferences and hers. I mean, even Wesley was a bit less of a prat after he'd been there a while. So even shiny Council employees can be a bit flexible.

If Giles set out to do things different, that is one version of him. If he just sort of ended up with a very different Slayer, that is another.

I tend to figure always it is a bit of both, for people are complicated. Janus faces, looks like two but is one.

We didn't see much of Riley after he decided to go back to the before people. We did see a lot of Giles. Still both of them might have done it as a positive progress or a negative retreat.

I'm thinking in pictures today
so

What few images from the BtVS series would you use to show off Giles for the Ripper spin off? Not cool lines, more the kind of thing that goes in the opening credits, picture moments. Exactly like what they used for BtVS? Or different?

What symbol would you put on the video set? Buffy has the heart on fire, or the heart and stake. Angel has those cool wings. What about Ripper?

What font would you use? Buffy has that splashy looking brushstroke thing, Angel has pointy bits that disappear, what font for Ripper?

[Poll #770309]

Poll #770309 Canon and character background
Open to: All, detailed results viewable to: All. Participants: 30

Giles - do we know everything important about him?
View Answers
Yes
5(16.7%)
NO
25(83.3%)

Little clicky poll to start with.

I was wondering, do you think that we already know, from canon, everything important about Giles? We got a reveal in The Dark Age, we got bits about his background. We got to find out what kind of donuts he likes. Do we know all the major things?

If we're writing fanfic, and we make something up, have we got big stretches of blank or really obvious necessary things that need filling in? Or are we fiddling with the details?

If we add bits to the making of him, will they be like table legs, or just more twiddly carvings?


We know about his Duty. We know about a Horrible Trauma. Is there more, somewhere in those years before canon?

Is there more in the bit after canon, when he went back to England? Was what happened to him then particularly significant?

What do you think are the key moments in Giles canon anyway?