Dr Faustus and Theology
Apr. 1st, 2009 04:18 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
beccaelizabethI am reading up on Dr Faustus for class. I find it dramatically less than compelling, a couple of good speeches to start and end but a bit of nothing much in the middle. But they are very good speeches.
I started reading the York Notes Advanced to go with it but I think they've very badly screwed up the theology. They say that the play involves an angry God who can't/won't save Faustus because contracts are binding even on God. I think that can't be supported either within the text or within relevant Christian thought. Faustus' fall is explicitly said to be because of Pride and Despair. He has the pride to think that his sin, of all the sins in history, is the only unforgivable one. He despairs, and turns away from God. He won't believe he can be saved, he won't ask for forgiveness, and when he calls on Christ he immediately gets so scared of the Devil he turns around and begs mercy off the evil ones instead. He denies that God has the power to save him, to protect him from devils. And finally he keeps trying to get God to save his *life*, to bring him bodily up to heaven, in a mirror of what he fears from the devil, being taken quick and in body down to hell. He's afraid of death, he wants *breath*, but he doesn't properly ask God to save his *soul*. In fact he asks that his soul be turned to water - that the immortal and spiritual be turned to matter - because he'd rather his soul destroyed than in hell. Again, denying the efficacy of salvation, denying the infinite mercy of God. There is an angry God. Right after Faustus thinks devils will kill him before he can make with the repentance, God makes with the angry face. Faustus decides God is angry with him, and that's when he starts asking the earth to hide him and all that. He's trying to hide from damnation rather than seeking forgiveness and doing repentance. It's all there in the play, the scholars tell him mercy is infinite and he goes off on one about how it doesn't apply to him. Pride, and Despair.
All this is from my non-Christian's understanding of Christian belief, mainly gained through research on literary texts. Or remembered from when I was tiny and actually went to church. I'd like to know a bit more to properly argue this.
Also there's a bit where he's ordering time to stop so he has enough time to repent. Why would he need time?
There's a vision of blood in the sky that's wonderfully ambiguous, because blood is pretty scary but it's Christ's blood, the sort that saves everyone. Faustus is all 'one drop and I'll be saved!' but he can't fly up and get any, and then he gets scared the devil will stomp him to pieces for wanting to and starts talking to the devil again. If he'd asked for a drop then it would go down to him. He wants the power to save himself, he tries to use the powers the devil granted him of transformation and flight to escape from the devil's punishments, but he never acknowledges that God's is the greatest power and only God can save him. That's his error, and why the devil gets him. And it's all in the play explained pretty clearly.
I think.
I'd rather like to have some books agreeing with me on this one.
There's also complications because the B version, the rewritten text, borks it in a lot of ways. I haven't read much, but it has the assorted devils physically on stage stopping him, it has the Good Angel tell Faustus he is doomed and turn away and leave him, and that's rather missing the point. The point is what the scholar says, what the old man says, that if he asks he can be saved. But Faustus never believes that, so he's damned.
There's another bit in the reader about how Faustus was seeking knowledge and it's all about the way curiousity should have limits. Not so very. Faustus was seeking knowledge from the people that couldnt give it to him, they couldn't tell him true things because they couldn't talk about God. Or they tell him truth, about hell and their own experience, and he ignores them. That's a rather different problem.
... I set out to study lit, not christianity, and yet so often they keep being the same. Couldn't we study great Buddhist literature? I'm sure there's bunches...
anyways.
The main problem isn't the knowledge thing, it's "the god thou servest is thine own appetite"
There's a big parade of seven deadly sins, there's a feast where he steals food and hits people, there's getting a devil to dress up like the prettiest woman ever and going off with it. Those aren't about knowledge and reason, they're acting like a beast, ignoring the benefits of reason a soul could bring. More about not thinking than thinking too far.
There's a bit early on where Faustus says "When I behold the heavens, then I repent"
and Mephastophilis has to head that off by persuading him that man is cooler than all of creation, because it was all meant for him. Is interesting.
But then the Good and Evil Angels turn up and start talking about repentance, the Good one saying God can pity him and the Evil one denying the possibility. But the real problem is, according to Faustus "My heart's so hardened I cannot repent!" and "I should have slain myself, Had not sweet pleasure conquered deep despair." So he's not repenting, he thinks he can't be saved because he can't care enough, and that despair would make him kill himself, except for 'pleasure'. He still despairs of God, denies his power to pity and have mercy, but he's having too much fun to really worry about it right now.
But this early the things that give him pleasure are getting Homer to sing, getting ravishing melodious harp music, and disputing astrology with Mephastophilis. Not simple body things yet. But that's when he discovers Mephastophilis' limits: he can tell things Faustus already knows, but he can't speak about the things he wants to know, about who made the world and all that God stuff. So Faustus sends him away. And there's another Good and Evil angel bit, where Good insists "Never too late, if Faustus can repent"
so repentance is the key.
But when he calls on Christ then three devils turn up and tell him off. "Thou shouldst not think of God; think of the devil"
Faustus: "I will henceforth: pardon me in this"
He's asking the wrong powers. He's not believing in the good guys having power.
He swears he never will again.
And that's when they promise to show him the SEven Deadly Sins
and he says "That sight will be as pleasing unto me as Paradise"
He gets the parade, and says "O this feeds my soul"
So he's turning to these sins and away from the thinking and disputation and rational stuff he started on.
Next he gets a European tour with Mephastophilis, with emphassis on delight, fruitful vines, fair and gorgeous, golden, sumptuous.
And then he goes to live in the Pope's 'privy chamber' , steals the pope's food, and thumps him.
Finally he shows off the pretty spirits he can call up to the Emperor.
The quest for knowledge is history, the quest for a really good party has him now.
All these grand cosmic powers, and he uses them to fetch grapes from the other half of the world when they're out of season. It's not really about curiousity or mental prowess at this point.
And then there's Helen.
There's an interesting thread where Faustus refuses to believe in Christian ideas of heaven and hell but happily believes in Classical ideas of the afterlife, where he'll get to hang out with the ghosts of philosophers. Right at the end he turns to classical ideas too, hoping to be reborn as an animal rather than trapped as an immortal human in hell. The extent to which a christian would perceive this as fooling himself can't be overstressed. He's really deeply wrong, if Christianity is right. And that comes together in the figures of the spirits he calls up, Alexander and Helen. Alexander he called for an Emperor, who was suitably impressed, even though he was told that Faustus can't call the true Alexander but rather "such spirits as can lively resemble Alexander", or devils in disguise. Helen he calls first for some scholars, warning them "Be silent then, for danger is in words". The scholars greatly admire her, and once she's gone call her "the pride of Nature's works". Pride again.
Then an Old Man turns up to tell him "I see an angel hovers oer thy head And with a vial full of precious grace Offers to pour the same into thy soul! Then call for mercy, and avoid despair." Once again he's getting that never-too-late message. But Faustus reckons "I do repent, and yet I do despair" He thinks he can't be saved. And so:
"One thing, good servant, let me crave of thee,
To glut the longing of my heart's desire:
That I might have unto my paramour
That heavenly Helen which I saw of late,
Whose sweet embracings may extinguish clean
These thoughts"
In calling her Heavenly he is making a great mistake, one he should know better than to make - he was the one who said such images were a devil in disguise. He's choosing sweet illusion rather than believing in Christian truth. He ignores the warnings he gave others, talks to her, and says "make me immortal with a kiss". Again the preoccupation with life, not salvation, and again asking entirely the wrong powers. "Her lips sucks forth my soul, see where it flies!"
He kisses her, chooses her, names her his heaven, even knowing she's a very pretty devil.
It's not curiousity, not by this point. It's him being 'wanton and lascivious'. At the start he asked for a wife; by this point he's happy with a paramour, the most famous adulteress in history. He despairs of forgiveness, and comforts himself with ever more sin.
It isn't about God refusing him or being angry or any sort of atheism. It's about a man who, once he's chosen a course, is too proud and despairing to think of changing it.
That's the tragedy.
Now I've spent all that long looking closer at it I think I like it more as a play. The scenes with Faustus in them hang together and plot a downward spiral. Maybe it's the other bits with the comedy I don't like... but there's a point to those as well. Hmmm.
Okay, so, done quite a lot of studying.
Tisn't exactly relevant for the assignment. Wonder how I could make it so.
I still like Hamlet better.
I started reading the York Notes Advanced to go with it but I think they've very badly screwed up the theology. They say that the play involves an angry God who can't/won't save Faustus because contracts are binding even on God. I think that can't be supported either within the text or within relevant Christian thought. Faustus' fall is explicitly said to be because of Pride and Despair. He has the pride to think that his sin, of all the sins in history, is the only unforgivable one. He despairs, and turns away from God. He won't believe he can be saved, he won't ask for forgiveness, and when he calls on Christ he immediately gets so scared of the Devil he turns around and begs mercy off the evil ones instead. He denies that God has the power to save him, to protect him from devils. And finally he keeps trying to get God to save his *life*, to bring him bodily up to heaven, in a mirror of what he fears from the devil, being taken quick and in body down to hell. He's afraid of death, he wants *breath*, but he doesn't properly ask God to save his *soul*. In fact he asks that his soul be turned to water - that the immortal and spiritual be turned to matter - because he'd rather his soul destroyed than in hell. Again, denying the efficacy of salvation, denying the infinite mercy of God. There is an angry God. Right after Faustus thinks devils will kill him before he can make with the repentance, God makes with the angry face. Faustus decides God is angry with him, and that's when he starts asking the earth to hide him and all that. He's trying to hide from damnation rather than seeking forgiveness and doing repentance. It's all there in the play, the scholars tell him mercy is infinite and he goes off on one about how it doesn't apply to him. Pride, and Despair.
All this is from my non-Christian's understanding of Christian belief, mainly gained through research on literary texts. Or remembered from when I was tiny and actually went to church. I'd like to know a bit more to properly argue this.
Also there's a bit where he's ordering time to stop so he has enough time to repent. Why would he need time?
There's a vision of blood in the sky that's wonderfully ambiguous, because blood is pretty scary but it's Christ's blood, the sort that saves everyone. Faustus is all 'one drop and I'll be saved!' but he can't fly up and get any, and then he gets scared the devil will stomp him to pieces for wanting to and starts talking to the devil again. If he'd asked for a drop then it would go down to him. He wants the power to save himself, he tries to use the powers the devil granted him of transformation and flight to escape from the devil's punishments, but he never acknowledges that God's is the greatest power and only God can save him. That's his error, and why the devil gets him. And it's all in the play explained pretty clearly.
I think.
I'd rather like to have some books agreeing with me on this one.
There's also complications because the B version, the rewritten text, borks it in a lot of ways. I haven't read much, but it has the assorted devils physically on stage stopping him, it has the Good Angel tell Faustus he is doomed and turn away and leave him, and that's rather missing the point. The point is what the scholar says, what the old man says, that if he asks he can be saved. But Faustus never believes that, so he's damned.
There's another bit in the reader about how Faustus was seeking knowledge and it's all about the way curiousity should have limits. Not so very. Faustus was seeking knowledge from the people that couldnt give it to him, they couldn't tell him true things because they couldn't talk about God. Or they tell him truth, about hell and their own experience, and he ignores them. That's a rather different problem.
... I set out to study lit, not christianity, and yet so often they keep being the same. Couldn't we study great Buddhist literature? I'm sure there's bunches...
anyways.
The main problem isn't the knowledge thing, it's "the god thou servest is thine own appetite"
There's a big parade of seven deadly sins, there's a feast where he steals food and hits people, there's getting a devil to dress up like the prettiest woman ever and going off with it. Those aren't about knowledge and reason, they're acting like a beast, ignoring the benefits of reason a soul could bring. More about not thinking than thinking too far.
There's a bit early on where Faustus says "When I behold the heavens, then I repent"
and Mephastophilis has to head that off by persuading him that man is cooler than all of creation, because it was all meant for him. Is interesting.
But then the Good and Evil Angels turn up and start talking about repentance, the Good one saying God can pity him and the Evil one denying the possibility. But the real problem is, according to Faustus "My heart's so hardened I cannot repent!" and "I should have slain myself, Had not sweet pleasure conquered deep despair." So he's not repenting, he thinks he can't be saved because he can't care enough, and that despair would make him kill himself, except for 'pleasure'. He still despairs of God, denies his power to pity and have mercy, but he's having too much fun to really worry about it right now.
But this early the things that give him pleasure are getting Homer to sing, getting ravishing melodious harp music, and disputing astrology with Mephastophilis. Not simple body things yet. But that's when he discovers Mephastophilis' limits: he can tell things Faustus already knows, but he can't speak about the things he wants to know, about who made the world and all that God stuff. So Faustus sends him away. And there's another Good and Evil angel bit, where Good insists "Never too late, if Faustus can repent"
so repentance is the key.
But when he calls on Christ then three devils turn up and tell him off. "Thou shouldst not think of God; think of the devil"
Faustus: "I will henceforth: pardon me in this"
He's asking the wrong powers. He's not believing in the good guys having power.
He swears he never will again.
And that's when they promise to show him the SEven Deadly Sins
and he says "That sight will be as pleasing unto me as Paradise"
He gets the parade, and says "O this feeds my soul"
So he's turning to these sins and away from the thinking and disputation and rational stuff he started on.
Next he gets a European tour with Mephastophilis, with emphassis on delight, fruitful vines, fair and gorgeous, golden, sumptuous.
And then he goes to live in the Pope's 'privy chamber' , steals the pope's food, and thumps him.
Finally he shows off the pretty spirits he can call up to the Emperor.
The quest for knowledge is history, the quest for a really good party has him now.
All these grand cosmic powers, and he uses them to fetch grapes from the other half of the world when they're out of season. It's not really about curiousity or mental prowess at this point.
And then there's Helen.
There's an interesting thread where Faustus refuses to believe in Christian ideas of heaven and hell but happily believes in Classical ideas of the afterlife, where he'll get to hang out with the ghosts of philosophers. Right at the end he turns to classical ideas too, hoping to be reborn as an animal rather than trapped as an immortal human in hell. The extent to which a christian would perceive this as fooling himself can't be overstressed. He's really deeply wrong, if Christianity is right. And that comes together in the figures of the spirits he calls up, Alexander and Helen. Alexander he called for an Emperor, who was suitably impressed, even though he was told that Faustus can't call the true Alexander but rather "such spirits as can lively resemble Alexander", or devils in disguise. Helen he calls first for some scholars, warning them "Be silent then, for danger is in words". The scholars greatly admire her, and once she's gone call her "the pride of Nature's works". Pride again.
Then an Old Man turns up to tell him "I see an angel hovers oer thy head And with a vial full of precious grace Offers to pour the same into thy soul! Then call for mercy, and avoid despair." Once again he's getting that never-too-late message. But Faustus reckons "I do repent, and yet I do despair" He thinks he can't be saved. And so:
"One thing, good servant, let me crave of thee,
To glut the longing of my heart's desire:
That I might have unto my paramour
That heavenly Helen which I saw of late,
Whose sweet embracings may extinguish clean
These thoughts"
In calling her Heavenly he is making a great mistake, one he should know better than to make - he was the one who said such images were a devil in disguise. He's choosing sweet illusion rather than believing in Christian truth. He ignores the warnings he gave others, talks to her, and says "make me immortal with a kiss". Again the preoccupation with life, not salvation, and again asking entirely the wrong powers. "Her lips sucks forth my soul, see where it flies!"
He kisses her, chooses her, names her his heaven, even knowing she's a very pretty devil.
It's not curiousity, not by this point. It's him being 'wanton and lascivious'. At the start he asked for a wife; by this point he's happy with a paramour, the most famous adulteress in history. He despairs of forgiveness, and comforts himself with ever more sin.
It isn't about God refusing him or being angry or any sort of atheism. It's about a man who, once he's chosen a course, is too proud and despairing to think of changing it.
That's the tragedy.
Now I've spent all that long looking closer at it I think I like it more as a play. The scenes with Faustus in them hang together and plot a downward spiral. Maybe it's the other bits with the comedy I don't like... but there's a point to those as well. Hmmm.
Okay, so, done quite a lot of studying.
Tisn't exactly relevant for the assignment. Wonder how I could make it so.
I still like Hamlet better.